Innovation has a price !!!

Thomas Edison and the inventors of "Facebook" are a couple that comes to mind. Did they get government subsidies to become famous in their inventions?

Interesting examples.

A quick google reveals that Edison thought the government should just create money to pay for projects rather than issuing bonds (which would be paid back with interest through taxes). Now, maybe he only meant that this should be done for projects that benefit all citizens...of course, innovative infrastructure projects don't seem to exist much anymore and Congress seems opposed to any expenditure that benefits all Americans across the board, but my suggestions there might be cheap internet for every citizen or ... affordable health care.

Facebook just wouldn't have been possible without government funding for ARPANET. Government participation in innovation leads to new innovations.

Government involvement doesn't create the innovation, people do.

Seems like semantics to me. I see our government as "us", in the collective sense. When government invests in infrastructure, it increases innovation. I think "infrastructure", though, includes healthy, educated citizens who are capable and free to start new ventures, in addition to roads and power lines.

once the idea is put into practice, shouldn't there be a cut off point for the subsidy

I would think so. Government investment should definitely be treated as a loan if it leads to a business model. I assume that's the explicit intent for government working to provide small business loans.

I was speaking more of grand new ideas, to make civilization better and easier. I'd call it "Jetsons" mode.

I think the internet is a grand new idea that makes civilization better and easier. A large percentage of businesses already depend on it. How many Zuckerbergs or Jobses or Brins could we have if everyone grew up with access to the internet? Do we only want a few giants that dominate the landscape, or should we be trying to build up a generation who can create and maintain small(ish) businesses in close competition, inventing new niche markets?

The internet is no less a game-changer than the railroad or electricity, but it's only useful if we have access. So, again, I think cheap or free internet access everywhere- maybe wireless!- would be a fantastic investment.

Part of the problem is that we tend to become stuck in our ways and what we think of as "infrastructure". There was a time when people objected to the building of the highway system. I think the investment paid off. To me, part of getting un-stuck is letting go of old ways. I already asked this in another thread today- but why don't we jettison the USPS and outsource it to private businesses? Having guaranteed delivery of information is of vital importance to good government, but the postal service is no match for the internet in that area.

"As for continuous subsidizing by government, once the idea is put into practice, shouldn't there be a cut off point for the subsidy, or should subsidies be never ending like for oil, wind and solar or anything else for that matter?"

Absofrigginlutely!! That's the problem we have with many industries these days, and I'll use Oil, gas, and Sugar....They all got subsidised early in life, and they got addicted to governemnt cash, especially OIL. We bend over backwards for the Oil and Sugar industries.

Now, Oil? We do have the advantage of paying less than most anyone in the world save for middle eastern countries where that is subsidised at the retail level. (Iran paid roughly $0.39 a gallon when I was there a few years ago.) But, what we give Big Oil has no effect on the retail level.

Sugar? Holy crap! Just the opposite, we subsidise the Sugar industry heavily, they are power brokers from it and the US citizen pays more for sugar than any country in the world.

That's not innovation, that's just plain greed allowed by law.

Holy crap! I forgot about that too!

Greenbelting! I remember when a stink was raised because a President had a buttload of land and was taking advantage of that law.

Greenbelting was another subsidy that needed to go away years ago. When we had a glut of food and wanted to keep the prices artificially high it was a good premise, but things are different now and if anything, we should be promoting food production.

how about this. we take the chamber of commerce. the american manufacturing assoc.. the council of foreign relations, the skull and cross bones,and bohemian society. geitner,bernache,and summers. the american bar assoc.. u know those real huge thug unions. lobbists. congress senator's liberals,and conservatives,as well as president,s. arrest them for treason. for giving our technology,and currency to a corrupt controlling government. allowed them to devalue their currency. so that their people can't afford our goods. called it open markets,and accused the blue collar american worker of being greedy. he is why the economy has gone south. because he belongs to unions that won't make us competitive. let charge them all with treason show them the same fate,the rosenburg's got in the 50's. raise the standard of living for all the workers of the world. and let the games,and the competition begin. let our merchant ships leave our ports full. come back full with their good's how is that for open market,and free enterprise.

Actually, they never did it that way. I suggest you read up on some economic history. In the past, the gov't supported industry even more than today, particularly with tarriffs and duties.

along with tax breaks. that create job's here. when the research,and development is done here.

Good conversation. Couple Comments: 1) Power and Money are in bed together. 2) Innovation in the private sector covets IP and self preservation. 3) Agree that innovation is at it's best when your hungry...for something. Question: How can we ensure that innovation from the private sector is always in the best interest of the general public? For example: I would like to use one secure 'system' or interface with pipes to my electronic data ie: health, education, career etc.. and have the 'system' run outcome scenarios bumped up against policy, proposed policy, etc. that would provide me with potential outcomes. Would help me and my fellow citizens decide how to vote, oh, and online real-time voting would be nice. This type of tool would seem to require public/private partnerships?

Oversight you mean when congress looks "over there" while defense contractors pillage another 3-4 billion?

I thought corporate welfare was government bailing out failed businesses. I'd consider that very different from investment in future technology like, say, alternatives to fossil fuels. The former is- at best- maintaining the status quo, keeping people in jobs, and avoiding further 'structural' damage to the economy. The latter is a chance to kickstart a whole new industry. Then there are investments that fall somewhere in between...

Most ranting is over tax breaks which are often use to encourage the same innovation or to stay in a state and create jobs for that economy. This bail out thing is relatively new, at least in the scale it's practiced today.

While corporate welfare has attracted critics from both the left and the right, there is no uniform definition. By TIME's definition, it is this: any action by local, state or federal government that gives a corporation or an entire industry a benefit not offered to others. It can be an outright subsidy, a grant, real estate, a low-interest loan or a government service. It can also be a tax break--a credit, exemption, deferral or deduction, or a tax rate lower than the one others pay.

**(Robert in Ohio) #11**

Sounds a lot like “SARCASOM” to me, LOL, Greg, You know our government would never put out any of our money that they did not feel was safe and secure, that would be unthinkable.

Jim

You are right and believe me Greg knew it too

Greg

Doing well and while what you say is true I do not have to like it

Take care, good post

greg

And I did

Take care

I have been trying to find something..... I think Discovery or Home and Garden network did a show called "Made in America" they apparently built a house and tried to do it with all American products right down to the furnishings and appliances. I heard about it from a guy who heard it from ....ad nauseam. Just a thought you home basers have more time to Indiana Jones than I. The reuslts this guy said were incredibly comical. Might make a great seed too if it in fact exists.