The Equation D + A + NV = DA on Newsvine

You can't keep a good DA down! No matter how much those uber liberals try!

DA Virgil ready, willing and able. Ready, willing and able for what I don't know.

I found this amazing to watch, all the way to the end. Maybe others have already seen it but somehow I missed this until recently. This is America.

my-pockets-r-mt

That was an excellent link! It made my visual receptor orbs sweat! 8-]

I have a very hard time watching footage of the Towers going down. Seeing it for the first time as it unfolded was too much. I put it up there with the Hindenburg disaster, and John Kennedy being shot. Even at 8 years old I understood the gravity of someone actually dying, and I can go the rest of my life without watching as he was murdered.

^

great link...now I am crying...thanks! Seriously, a great clip!

Great clip pockets. It illustrates what I wrote in an article that no one read on 911 about how we as Americans ca not be defeated. We will fight with each other like cats and digs but when it matters we are one.

Not true that no one read it arkpdx.

What struck me was the number of people that they helped.

Not true that no one read it arkpdx.

OK sirry you and Northerngirl read it but thats all. Of course I do admit to not being the wordsmith you all are. I don't even come close. I am hoping that by staying near all the DA's some of your brilliance may rub off.

vol fan in chatt, tn

"great link...now I am crying...thanks! Seriously, a great clip!"

9/11 is my birthday, some Newsviners know this. This was one of the saddest days of my life in 2001.

yes and yes. At some point someone took it to mean they were calling somebody else a DA....as an insult...here it is explained so even a 5th grader can get it.

Let's hope this one sticks without getting collapsed...sheeze, some people are sooo sensitive these days...

I had asked owl about it a while back and he told me you run it greg and I forgot about it, so yeah I'll join. :)

I always knew I was a dumbass. HAHAHAHA

There's even an accusation floating around that the group was created specifically to violate the COH.

Silliness. Some people need to lighten up and learn to take a joke.

Greg: Can I be a DB? (Dumb Blonde)

Eh-Hum, isn't #6.7 name dropping?

YOU CAN BE WHATEVER YOU WANT

That's what my mother used to tell me when I was little. Then the Democrats decided that you can only be what you want if you are rich. No, really, they told EVERYBODY that - over and over until all liberals believed it and started hating rich people. So now, all you can be if you're not rich is spiteful, hateful and envious.

Vlad's dog (oops, not supposed to use names) !

Good to see you and welcome my friend. It's been awhile since we last spoke. I hope you have been well.

I'm not sure if you know much about the history of the DA's, but I think you will find that they are a great bunch. It is a diverse group with varying political viewpoints, but drawn together by Greg's initial call for common sense and civil discourse. There are some on Newsvine who don't agree, and felt it necessary to silence the opinions of others by collapsing several of the previous DA articles that had been running for months with excellent participation and thousands of comments. I don't understand the mindset of those bent on this kind of "book burning" as I see it, but they are out there and will likely strike again. Enjoy your time here while it lasts, the people here are very much worth getting to know.

Take care my friend.

And we'll just keep posting another one, and another one, and another one............................:-]

I agree with you two. Vlad is A-OK in my book. A true Pittsburgh jagoff!

I knew nothing when I was born. Went to school. No wonder I grew up to be a dumbass.

I am an American! First and foremost.

In my 32 years of voting, I have voted Democrat, Republican, Green, Libertarian and Independent.

I vote for the person. I'm not a follower, I don't vote party lines in any election. I believe a good and fair balance in all political realms work best for America.

Oh, and as I said, I'm a major Smart Ass!!

lol

Your just an all around kinda gal

Oooh, my mama told me about those kinda gals.

greg- labels are just for the insecure to feel better about themselves..."they" can label away!!

my-pockets- not that kinda gal, lol!

Yea? Well, my self-labeled label is SA!

;-)

arkpdx- thanks for the FR, accepted!

arkpdx

I am here. I have been hovering around reading all the comments waiting for an opening to land in!

People have been seeing me all over Newsvine! But nobody would admit it because the others would think they were crazy! And they are afraid of the men in black paying them a visit! (Tyler and Sally).:-]

they are afraid of the men in black paying them a visit

I am not really afraid of them too much. I do hide when I hear sirens though. I hear they have this nifty white coat with extra long sleeves and two belt in the back that has my name in it. So far they haven't caught me.

Those are old school restraints, now we just use tractor beams :-] And blue flash Memory eracers!

smells, you're one in a million. I never took your handle as that of self deprication, but that of the ability to identify B.S. when you find it.

I take it you prefer being addressed as Smells rather than Poo.Understandable. I find I must compliment you as your statement contains in such a sarcastically artistic manner the extent to which many of us as Greg said, are shocked and angered by the hostile behavior we have encountered on the Vine. Would you consider yourself, a DA Smellsofpoo ?

Ah, but alas we must refrain from the use of names by edict of the powers that be. Since we DA's know each other fairly well perhaps we can describe each other by other attributes or by hinting at each other's moniker without actually using it. Does that sound reasonable to you "sight of large nocturnal bird"?

By the way - careful there.... you used the G-Man's moniker in your last post in salutation.

"He" is the moderator for crying out loud!

Hi Freewill, how you doing?

LOL...good evening "sight of large nocturnal bird". I am doing great! You? Just got back from working out with my son and popped into Newsvine to receive my nightly stream of spiteful rhetoric and invective before I turn in for the evening. Glad to see someone here who doesn't necessarily want to "tap me out" for my views. Have a great night my friend. By the way, nice articles the last few.

Sleep well, I'm just looking over another new nest. A few differences in make- up this time. A lot slower on the take off also I noticed. Oh well, Rome wasn't built in a day.

As usual I'll leave the porch light on. Goodnight all of you nameless DAs. Hoot Hoot.

I think I may get it now. The DA group was originally formed out of frustration at the amount of derogatory exchanges, vulgarity and name calling on the Vine. The group chose to refer to each other recognizing in a manner showing a shared Dumbfoundedness at Asinine behavior.

In somebodies "judgement", somebody who works for and represents MSNBC,a media of major influence, referring to each other in this manner is derogatory. Despite the fact that the group is against defamation.

I feel sorry for other groups on the Vine that must now be facing having their groups collapsed for use of terms that can be judged as derogatory. Examples:

GEEK Vine -- Geeks the target of spite and disdain.

QUEER Agenda -- To refer to homosexuality or homosexual persons as "queer" was deemed as being derogatory and totally politically incorrect years ago.

Tax NERDS -- See GEEK.

None of these organizations deserve to be shut down. Social groups who are comfortable with the words they use to describe themselves or their agendas. It's all in the name.

We did ask for the Vine to tone it down. We didn't mean that we wanted them to go from a cesspool of liberal incivility to a bastion of conservative moralistic doctrines. I do believe the Vine may have just made the single biggest flip flop from freedom of speech to censorship in history. Just as with our Congress, the words compromise and moderation seem to be missing from their dictionaries.

None of these organizations deserve to be shut down. Social groups who are comfortable with the words they use to describe themselves or their agendas. It's all in the name.

I agree, owlsview. I have an article up about the "Myth of White Privilege," and in discussion came the point of it's not 'PC' for whites to use terms that the racial groups find offensive, yet 'they' can use terms against Whites - and, Oh - that's Ok. With the larger point being that many of those racial terms have many meanings quite often, despite the context the word is used in - so, as you say, 'it's all in the name'. We should be allowed to use any words we want simply because 'offense' is only in the mind of the beholder.

Excellent post at #12.6 Owls!

That pretty much sums it up as far as the intent and origins of the DAs. Something tells me the posts of those other organizations/groups you listed won't be collapsed, and if they are, those actions won't be condoned/supported by the MSNBC representatives as they were in this case. But hey, I suppose it is up to us to point such things out, and appeal for common sense and free expression.

Greg - I understand the name thing, I was just bristling with sarcasm at how ridiculous it is to suggest that the DA articles were collapsed for that "violation" when anyone with a pair of eyes (or even a single eye) can find it all over Newsvine. So what is wrong with directing people to another vine where a good discussion is taking place? Are we allowed to direct people from a DA article to one of our own posts on another vine as I sometimes do if we are discussing something relevant to a post that I recently left elsewhere? Why should we have to repeat something we already wrote? If that it not allowed, I will refrain from that practice, but frankly I didn't see anything in the CoH that prohibits it.

To be honest CL1 that puts us into a "Catch 22" position. We want to be able to use any words we want. We want civility in our exchanges. A paradoxical conundrum.

Perhaps it would be better if the moderators were to base their judgements more on the contumeliousness of a statement, rather than dictionarial definitions of words.

So maybe I show off from time to time. Go get yourself a dictionarial definition. It most certainly is not my fault if your father never punished you by making you copy a dictionary from A-Z . As a result I am constantly having to endure episodes of subdural wordatoma.Just sharing my pain.^

If you think the spelling is tough, try saying it once, leastways three times in a row. Hoot Hoot.

Freewill, you are my friend, so please don't take a 'slight' if I respectfully disagree.

True, it is not against the rules to link to our own page or others in discussion. Personally, I find it somewhat unethical, though. It's directing traffic away from the page one is on. Newsvine likes it because it creates more hits and revenue, but a 'user' doesn't generally appreciate losing the interest in their own Column.

Yet, I'm sure I've done it, too!

Part of the contradiction to me is the 'intent' involved when some of the Viners do it. I don't agree when the Column everyone is being directed to is basically just another 'user' saying the same thing on their own page. I "do" agree when the link is professional supporting evidence or information that 'explains' a particular point. ..just me, maybe. :)

Perhaps it would be better if the moderators were to base their judgements more on the contumeliousness of a statement, rather than dictionarial definitions of words.

Lol, owls. Good point, and I agree!

father never punished you by making you copy a dictionary from A-Z

Wow, I can relate. Ours was write a report from the encyclopedia, Britannica no less, which meant you had to have a dictionary nearby to figure out words what many of the words meant.

Needless to say it only happened once for me, lessoned learned.

CL1 - I don't perceive anything you wrote in 12.11 as a "slight", and I'm not even sure that we disagree on any of it. I see what you mean about redirecting away from an author's seed, but as you later pointed out it can be helpful if it points to further evidence or adds value to the crux of the conversation. Now if the article is about the comparison of economic models and I direct the readers to an article I wrote about shampoo, that is not right...perhaps it could be considered unethical. But that is not what I do, and I'm confident that it is not what you or any of the other DAs would do.

The DA articles have been rather open ended as far as topic of discussion. So as the topic of discussion changes I see no disrespect to Greg in some of us directing readers to other vines where the topic du jour is being further expanded. Greg - If you feel that you do not wish for us to do this, please let us know and I for one shall refrain.

Thank you for that explanation, Freewill. I wasn't aware of the situation not being a member of the group (although, it appears that I am qualified to be a member:), I agree with it for "expansion" purposes, and as long, as you mention, as the particular Column moderator agrees.

If posters stuck to the specific of what I wrote, it would be rather boring, wouldn't you say ?

I love that statement. I agree with tangential threads that basically expand the main topic - it's still related, but is highlighting another area of the main topic, or is necessary to be used as an example to explain a point one is making.

Then there are articles that are satire and meant just for 'fun' and 'off-topic' has value, where 'on-topic' - doesn't!

I'll see your coffee talk with some Dusty Muffins!

Sounds good. Is "DA" a group or are you referring to articles on your Column?

Let me clarify something that may have many of you confused. There is another related group on another site. One comprised of many of Greg's style of DA. Also by many not of the same mindset. Greg did not start that group. I am a member.

Due to the many cross-connects it is not always peaceful over there. Conflicts over how to behave on the Vine are common and often quite pointed. Don't waste time trying to get me to be specific. They are my friends and I do not have to agree with everything they may say or do in order to respect their privacy.

There is also a private group here on the Vine. Established more as a knee-jerk reaction to the first DA Article collapse. Hardly ever gets visited or used. Though hidden from the public, wouldn't be a very intelligent place to plot violations of the COH. Moderators have full access.

To those groups you need an invitation. Being a DA on the Vine is more of a personal admission to the fact than a decision of others.

Greg- this one?

owlsview, thank you for the additional group info in 12.22.

I was aware of the one group you referenced as a result of an article you posted, and I became so emotionally invested in the discussion (not physically, just reading the comments) that I was compelled to contact you.

No, I would not expect you or anyone to get "specific" - not wanting to get anything started, for sure.

I have wondered if joining one of the political groups, not just to rant, rather, one that is more informational - perhaps, *less goal-oriented* (by that I mean: planning 'buddy' strategies to either 'push' agendas together in other's articles or collapse articles) ..is something I would enjoy. I would not like the goal-oriented group that has a "dictator" or several dictators or 'planners' or the like (lol), I don't think.

I was invited to one private political group, but the owner quit shortly after setting it up, and did seem to be a bit 'radical' - lol. As a result, it doesn't have any activity other than an occasional clip.

I prefer a group that doesn't include the 'bossy' ones on the Vine, as well as the 'hot heads'. I would like to find out how to join the DA groups that would more or less want the rational and common-sense types that are there to educate and discuss pros and cons, and occasionally have some fun with it (make fun of our Leaders.. things that aren't suitable for the open Forum, imo.. just causes flame wars when that happens).

Being a DA on the Vine is more of a personal admission to the fact than a decision of others.

Hahaha, that's good!!

Greg, is that a private group or public in 12.24?

It shall be known and shown at the bottom of this page that I am indeed the presidential, the master, the mightiest wizard to turn the pages on the very site you are currently visiting. None have stepped forward to the mantle I gladly offer to any taker. Their are those who have substituted for me, twice. Nary a one has stepped forward and replaced me.

All hail the royally indentured Owl.

How are the wolves doing? Still eating cows?

Hey Owl,

Hadn't heard about the wolves eating cows thing, but we are hearing more about problems with bears and coyotes.

I'm thinking that wolf problem might be further west of you. Bears can be a problem. What upsets me the most is all the trouble you're having with coyotes.

We have been trying to solve that problem for years down here in the desert. Nothing worse than a bunch of dang human smugglers.

Thanks Greg! :-)

Owl,

You've got both human and animal coyote problems down there.

Yeah, I'm one of the human ones. Problems that is. I hoot, I don't howl.

Ah but can you end up with hairy knuckles?

We are now in the meta category if I read the tags correctly. Adherence to the COH is a main part of this article.

I have a Meta question.

I published an article a few minutes ago. My first two commentors are liberals, who immediately went off topic and made derogatory remarks. I could delete them for violations of the COH. I know that if I do based upon past experience and the experience of others, that I will almost certainly be gang collapsed. What am I supposed to do?

Normally I would post a link to where this problem is occurring so that you could judge for yourselves, but I am not sure that is allowable.

owls, as the seeder/author you have to first tell them they are off topic and ask them to stop.

If they do not, you tell them the next time they try to derail, you will delete.

If they continue, delete and give an explanation as to why.

If they dispute it, tell them to contact NV.

More than anything, do not escalate the problem by lowering yourself to their level

I know my duties as a moderator. I give people as much slack as possible.

Threatening deletion they take as a challenge.

Deletion begets retaliation.

Reporting them to the Moderators and expecting any timely or in the case of many any response at all is delusional to a non- liberal author.

On paper your suggestions are perfect. In the reality of the Vine, they are useless.

No, in reality, they are the criteria that NV requires you to follow. If it results in retaliation, then you take that directly to the malicious user portion of the report bug along with their column http.

owlsview -

Normally I would post a link to where this problem is occurring so that you could judge for yourselves, but I am not sure that is allowable.

It is 'always' Ok to link around the Vine - anywhere - on any Column to any Column.

What is not acceptable is to link to a personal blog page outside of the Vine to promote yourself, as I understand it. Kinda makes sense as that would not generate revenue for the business - the other does.

******

I've always thought as Rachel stated. I warn first, delete second, if the behavior doesn't stop, then tell them to take it up with the Staff. On the other side of the coin, if I am being accused of an infraction that 'obviously' isn't one - and the accusation is due to personal issues or dislike - then I usually contact the Staff and tell them that I am being unfairly prejudiced. Atleast, then, there is a record before the unfair Column-owner gets started with their irrational behavior.

I am beginning to detect an attitude of smugness. To suggest that I or other DAs are not familiar with Newsvine Criteria or haven't followed protocols is nothing but a blatant insult.

Delete a liberal COH violator. He goes to the mods. They re-post his comment. Reason given; "Wasn't a gross enough violation. "

Collapse a group of liberal COH violators. Your article gets collapsed. By the time if ever the mods respond to you, if your article is restored events have passed you by and the topic is no longer of interest or more insidiously you find that it has been done by someone else.

We need to remove the ability for readers to collapse articles. We don't need lectures on criteria nor lessons in protocol.

I realize that you are probably only trying to help, but what you don't seem to realize is that the crux of our problem lies in the fact that the criteria is not clear, it's applicable interpretation is based on judgmental decisions based on "who a person" is and or said person's "political leanings more than the actual violation of any rules."

When the grossness of a violation of a rule becomes more important than the rule itself, there is no rule just a mighty thin and shifting guideline.

owslview, are you referring to me (in 15.9) as being "smug"? - not on your life! I wasn't suggesting any "DAs" haven't followed protocols, at all. Only trying to help if I could.

I was mostly just trying to help when you commented that you weren't sure if it was Ok to link around the Vine... And, I don't agree with collapsing at all!

Also, my comment about irrational and rude, possibly psychotic - lol, moderators/authors (3 - one is gone from NV) had nothing to do with politics, that I know of - there seemed to be some kind of 'Vendetta' going on that was totally inane with no logical basis, as far as I knew. I suppose my leaning Conservative could have had 'something' to do with it, but it was not made known to me.

CL1, I find the format of the Vine very satisfying, though it does have a problem or two here or there.

My l5.9 followed directly behind your 15.8 ( logical) which followed behind 15.7. My response was a reaction to 15.7 and you got caught in the middle.

Whew!!! Thank you for letting me know! :)

Owlsview- I wasn't trying to be smug, I was trying to help. Sorry that you took it the wrong way...words not heard are some time hard to interpret.

I don't warn first if its a derailing situation. I delete post "Thank you for coming. Can you please re-post on topic?"

And then I delete all comments bitching about being deleted as "off topic" as well. This has only happened to me about 4 or 5 times and several of those times were the same person (opening with You'll probably delete me for this because you always do) and really I can honestly say that NOBODY ganged up on me because of it. Most people understand that being off topic and whining about being deleted is not appropriate behavior.

owl -- this is the 'point' that I interpret you want discussed in the discussion section, is that correct? :

This is not a conspiracy theory. This is a political action taking advantage of an opportunity to use a hot button issue as a way of deflecting the American peoples focus away from the actions of the President, Congress or both on other issues.

If so, and if you feel that someone is not doing that - then how about stating 'precisely' what point it is you want discussed, and if you feel that they aren't doing that, and are instead just making attack comments, then warn them and then delete them if they don't comply.

By big bloomers, I assume you mean the 'regulars'??

I have clarified my point several times. You assume correctly.

Hello Runner, thanks for stopping over and taking a gander at what's going on. I'm sure you have observed many similar activities before.

Yep, E.T and I were just discussing this very topic. It's funny to watch someone deny doing something while they are doing it. Get my drift?

I am guessing that he is taking a dim view of that activity.

I believe the worst is over. A good number of the regulars don't like to stick around when I am live on site. Being made to look foolish in person is something they abhor and the idea of arguing with one such as myself they find down right scarey. As my old friend Will used to say, "No brag, just fact."

Oh, and just as a side note. When other people who are often referred to as being DAs start showing up. They run like hell.

Such a wise Owl you are. Hey isn't it time to turn the page soon?

Soon. :)

KY-yi-yi-yippie! Who's up for some line dancing?

hey arkpdx - FYI, something is up with NV and my account. I've tried to accept your FR three or four times now and it just doesn't process the "accept" button.

kjm- when I got mine, I clicked on it four times and then leave and come back..another fine NV glitch!

It's crazy! I've had the same happen.

I know "He Who Walk Dogs That Are Not His" has bee around the vine I have seen some comments from him. It does fell like things aren't quite right doesn't it

He is here in spirit. Don't doubt that for a second. Fact is when he has something to say he will say it. At the moment we are still engaged in conversations much more serious than is normal for the DA site. Not what he comes here for.

Well I miss "He Who Walk Dogs That Are Not His", serious topics or not.

When one of the DA articles gets collapsed, we cant keep tabs on each other very well. Most viners wouldnt appreciate us chatting and goofing around on one of their articles everyday. Thats what makes these so great. We stay in touch, gossip, and have some fun.

I'll see if I can track "He Who Walks Dogs That Are Not His" down and alert him to the resurrection of the DA cafe.

Wait a minute now, I'm completely lost. Are you all saying that we're not even allowed to refer to each other by name? Boy that's a Dumb Ass rule! Oh wait, can I say that?

LOL....I had almost forgotten how fun it can be to mock rules.

Ok, I think I get what this is all about: Because you have the group called "Dumbassess" - you then, tease each other on other's Columns, calling each other a "dumbass" because, well.. you are ..heehee.. metaphorically, not literally ... and then you get in trouble with the Staff for doing so??

One viner got in trouble for calling HIMSELF a DA!

Oh my, that's absurd!

Here's my argument to this logically moot premise:

1) The UA specifically makes it clear that a personal attack pertains to 'another person' ..geesh, so calling oneself 'any' name in the book is clearly not an infraction.

2) If using words that are going to be interpreted by the computer (because the profanity filter is on) or the Staff as something truly 'bad' to do -- then NV would never have given us the 'option' to use those words in the first place!! Essentially, that's saying that it's Ok to use any swear or inflammatory words we want, as long as they aren't directed to any other person, important place or thing (that could start a flame war due to cultural bashing or prejudice).

My suggestion would be to ask the Staff if we could use the spelled-out version of the word with the trademark symbol ™ .. or some such to delineate the group members from the other usage.

I rest my case... :)

CL1

My suggestion would be to ask the Staff if we could use the spelled-out version of the word with the trademark symbol ™ .. or some such to delineate the group members from the other usage.

How do you make that little symbol?

The Alt key on the main KB plus 0153 (on the right-hand keypad).

Lol, "eligibility" is what that should have said ...sure messed that up! lol

I don't use email, so if you need to give me a private message on the above matter, please use the "Comments and Feedback" module on my Column, and I can delete it after reading. Thank you!

One other offering, I hope you don't judge people by their "lists." The reason why so many Libs are there are because when I joined NV, they were prolific at the time of the elections and 'friended' me. The acceptance wasn't based on politics, but on respectful demeanor, at the time, and being a 'new' Viner.

CL1 - I know your posts pretty well and I can honestly say that you are everything we look for in a DA.

P.S. Why aren't you blue? I thought we took care of that long ago. FR sent. Please accept?

greg, 22.3... Ok, I think I understand. Are you saying that besides wanting to focus more on the 'outside' - you also aren't wanting to add more to your group at this time?

kjmgirl... Thank you! Yes, I've been a "DA" for a long, long time. If there is anything I have to offer, it would definitely be experience. :P

Thanks, Greg. That's very understandable. We've exchanged a few times in the past, but probably not enough to make any type of 'clear' impression.

I also realize that if put to a vote, I might get a thumbs down by someone, although, I can't think of any political encounters I've had that might cause that, and any 'misunderstandings' that might have happened in the past were with those of the Liberal species, most likely. :)

You seem OK to me CL But then I'm easy. I'm not cheap, just easy.

FR sent.

I'm easy. I'm not cheap, just easy.

LOL.. Works for me! :) I'm guessing that you are of the quality of 'easy' that we all enjoy: easy to be with on the Vine. Thanks for the FR, too.

Thanks for the info, owlsview. I'm currently a member of a group that functions similarly, although I think some of it might get changed.

I would not see that as a personal rejection at all, personally. Very understandable that if everyone there doesn't want someone for some reason, then the nominee should be rejected.

By the way, why would you think what you did about me in 15.9?? I would never suggest any of those things about anyone.

I don't know a lot of the Conservatives on the Vine, anymore. Originally, I exchanged with Bill Harrison, TheCapitalist, then rickace and eventually Ellie, and a few others, then eventually crispy, Drizzey, CaptainObvious and several others, but didn't necessarily become friends. I am not a spy for the left, and politically lean right. I hope someone will see my value and would like to sponsor me in. If I am rejected, then I will have to accept that.

CL1, Please see my 15.10.