Everybodies catchin' on Folks !!!!!

Both VP Biden and President Obama need to be thrown out. Any CEO that can loose that much money in less than 3 years, on just this one item, "SHOULD" be kicked out of running the the Big Corp. we call "Government".

21 votes

#1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:08 AM EST

WBOB in Indiana

Cept they have one thing a legitimate business doesn't have....a printing press. So they don't care if they make good or bad business decisions.

We the people are the real boss here....and what does a competent one due when one of it's employees is hopelessly causing the company to lose money. "You're Fired".

20 votes

#1.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:25 AM EST

Rich-2229277

"Green Energy," sucks up a whole lot of green and with no green pastures being produced because of it.

Ask many in Michigan!

Out west in the old days the cow patties produced more energy for the settlers in thier fires and it kept them warm and it cost them nothing but patients.

13 votes

#1.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:38 AM EST

Fact Check, Congress appropriates spending and for projects. Solar and Wind Power electricity is already going on and plans for more are in the works. The funds for Olsen were already committed and in trusteeship.

Evergreen Solar Inc., indirectly received $5.3 million through a state grant to open a $450 million facility in 2007 that employed roughly 800 people.

SpectraWatt, based in Hopewell Junction, N.Y., is also a solar cell company that was spun out of Intel in 2008. In June 2009, SpectraWatt received a $500,000 grant from the National Renewable Energy Laboratory as part of the stimulus package"

The Olsens, their partners and investors had opened the 110-million-gallon Renew Energy ethanol plant in Jefferson in 2007, but on Jan. 30, 2009, the company filed for bankruptcy. Two weeks later, BNP Paribas, a European bank, forced Olsen’s Mill into receivership with a Green Lake County lawsuit to recoup the $50 million it had loaned Olsen’s Mill to buy grain and fund its operations.

As of the third quarter of 2011, the cumulative installed capacity of wind power in the United States was 43,461 megawatts (MW),^[2] making it second in the world, behind China.^[3] In 2010 wind power accounted for 2.3% of the electricity generated in the United States.^[4] This amounted to 95 terawatt-hours (TW·h) of electricity.^[5]

Solar power in the United States is an area of considerable activity and there are many utility-scale solar power plants. The largest solar power installation in the world is the Solar Energy Generating Systems facility in California, which has a total capacity of 354 megawatts (MW). Nevada Solar One is a solar thermal plant with a 64 MW generating capacity, located near Boulder City, Nevada. The Copper Mountain Solar Facility is a 48 MW photovoltaic solar power facility in Boulder City, Nevada. The DeSoto Next Generation Solar Energy Center is a 25 MW photovoltaic solar power facility in DeSoto County, Florida.

18 votes

#1.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:00 AM EST

And in comparative cost analysis stanley are we saving any money or spending money to keep these science projects running?

17 votes

#1.4 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:23 AM EST

stanley? hullo? are you there?

11 votes

#1.5 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:04 PM EST

Randy McMurphy

Tes

Have you run a cost benefit analysis of what we REALLY pay for ancient solar energy(fossil fuel)? The health problems, the protection of oil shipping lanes , the environmental degradation to extract it, the subsidies to the corporations enriched by it?...We pay a lot more than what you see at the pump.

21 votes

#1.6 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:17 PM EST

And yet we still don't have a viable, reliable alternate energy source.

I'll stick with Oil and coal, thank you very much. We already know everything there is to know about those two energy sources. As for "Green", so far, we know it "Fails" more than it helps.

10 votes

#1.7 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:23 PM EST

Nice try Randy. You have that information I requested from stanley?? No? How surprising. Liberals answer a question with a question.

But since you asked yes I have and it ain't pertty Randy. Let me ask you a question Randy, you still drive??

12 votes

#1.8 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:27 PM EST

Taxpayers have been feeding the foulies (spelled as I choose) of green since way back in the 70's and got nothing, so now they double down and still getting nothing but a bunch of start ups with taxpayers dollars going bankrupt.

9 votes

#1.9 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:29 PM EST

oh tesla sorry, I was off Road Trip planning so I'm on and off of the NV... Cost Analysis. Hmmm, depends on the short range or the long range...In the short range the cost is on the high side for not only R&D but setting up the real time infrastructure. The initial investment off set by any increase in electricity cost (as some electric companies did) In the long range, the cost of the fuel, ie coal, nuclear etc, is decreased as the wind/solar ramps up. Any cost of fuel would be switched to decreasing the wind/solar cost.

It doesn't include any infusion of funds via State and Federal grants or loans. Not much different then going from two lane roads to interstate four and six lane highways. :) though President Eisenhower prevailed and his foresight has greatly enhanced the movement of goods and as a byproduct...industrial parks across the US.

Please note: each member has a 'contact' where you can send a msg, no need to page me on the article. :) I have a toolbar that alerts me to incoming yahoo msgs. Unfortunately, NV doesn't have that service in an article comment...:)

16 votes

#1.10 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:01 PM EST

So the answer is??? Apologies stanley but I have limited puter skills. My E-mail is on that profile page on NV. If you find some figures I would love to see them. I am truly interested in saving our Planet from ourselves. I am not interested in enriching thieves who only pay lip service to the ideal.

12 votes

#1.11 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:11 PM EST

thisbusymonster

Comment collapsed by the community

ahhh, in the real time world of infrastructure, keeping the thieves out is well nigh impossible. Or scammers or con artists. There are always a certain percentage of those in the real world. Some of them are very, very good at what they do. Bernie Madoff for instance and a couple of others. If there were more rules and regulations in place, then that would have a downside also. :)

Figures: What I will do is compare the Federal Interstate investment.. The final estimate of the cost of the Interstate System was issued in 1991. It estimated that the total cost would be $128.9 billion, with a Federal share of $114.3 billion. This estimate covered only the mileage (42,795 miles) built under the Interstate Construction Program. It excluded turnpikes incorporated into the Interstate System within the mileage limitation and the mileage added as a logical addition or connection outside the limitation but financed without Interstate Construction funds."

Do note that a large portion of that money was in 1954 through 1960's dollars. $5,000 then is about $25,000 now. A more accurate way of measuring is here

The closest estimate, Federal, State, Electric Companies, Investors is: From Forbes: approximate $55.9 billion.. After solar and wind, what Bloomberg calls energy-smart technologies – smart grid, energy storage, efficiency – grabbed $19. 2 billion in investment while biofuels attracted $9 billion, geothermal $2.8 billion and marine power $0.3 billion. Worldwide: renewable energy industry, global investment reached a record $260 billion in 2011...

The offset is this: The U.S. wind industry generates tens of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars of economic activity.^[9] Wind projects boost local tax bases, and revitalize the economy of rural communities by providing a steady income stream to farmers with wind turbines on their land.^[1] GE Energy is the largest domestic wind turbine manufacturer.^[1]

13 votes

#1.13 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:40 PM EST

@1.12 who said, "I'm sure research will ramp up pretty fast once the oil runs out. Which it already is."

The Earth has run out of oil? Really?? Do Russia, the Middle East, and South America know about this??????

13 votes

#1.14 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:47 PM EST

Russia and several South American countries are selling more to China. China is using oil up pretty fast though there are still reserves that aren't tapped yet. It is all good though to have alternate power supplies available. :)

8 votes

#1.15 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:59 PM EST

And Canada is trying to get into the mix.

We get more oil from Canada than we get from anywhere else.

Gosh, Whose the smart ones. Those that sell it or those that buy it.

6 votes

#1.16 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:16 PM EST

the ones that don't Rely on it.

12 votes

#1.17 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:29 PM EST

Those that live in Antarctica ?

6 votes

#1.18 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:39 PM EST

They rely on it, diesel and airplane fuel more so than gasoline . Those nations in the future that don't have multiple passenger transportations structures, like America, and rely on individual vehicle's are either 1) gonna pay a higher cost for gasoline or 2) switch to another source of power.

It happened with the horse and buggy, and it's going to happen to combustion engines. Though I can see why most people kept their horse and buggy (Mennonites and Amish), and there will be some that keep their gasoline car. The majority though will need to switch because the high cost of retrieval of oil and the growing demand worldwide....will drive the cost of the gasoline higher and higher.

6 votes

#1.19 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:06 PM EST

Chuck1968

Solar isnt going away, its a HUGE success , even the Air Force Academy is powering up with solar. Yes people are catching on, but the people who THINK they've caught on dont have a clue because of Fox news Koch bros and pure stupidity.

Stick to your oil fools and stay scared of the future. its so funny because Conservatives like to pretend their so tough. lmao!

China may double its installations of solar panels this year, absorbing excess production that depressed prices and margins in 2011, chief executive officers from two of the industry’s top five manufactures said.

Suntech Power Holdings Co. CEO Zhengrong Shi estimated the nation may add 4 gigawatts or more of panels, and Trina Solar Ltd. (TSL) CEO Jifan Gao expects 5 gigawatts. That compares with about 2.2 gigawatts installed in the country in 2011, more than double the capacity of the average nuclear reactor in the U.S.

Those forecasts are more optimistic than the projections of Bloomberg New Energy Finance, which expects Chinese installations of 3 gigawatts this year and world demand from 25.5 gigawatts to 32.8 gigawatts. Trina expects global demand of 30 gigawatts to 35 gigawatts.

Solar shares have rebounded in recent weeks, driven in part by politics in Germany, the world’s largest solar market. After adding a record 7.5 gigawatts of panels last year, more than double the government’s target, lawmakers proposed cutting subsidies. A meeting Jan. 25 ended without an agreement and solar stocks climbed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-26/solar-ceos-predict-boom-in-china-will-ease-glut-in-2012-energy.html?cmpid=yhoo

7 votes

#1.20 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:10 PM EST

babina

Chuck, Please stop it with the facts. They will never believe it anyway. I guess they think that oil and coal are never ending supplies of energy. The world is flat too.

6 votes

#1.21 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:04 PM EST

Silvaria

I'm rather shocked by the number of intelligent people who seem to think that just because we don't have any alternative viable energy sources right this very moment, screw spending ANY money to do ANY research to find new ones.

Do you guys honestly think that oil and coal are never-ending, as babina said? Do you not have a clue as to what a nasty world we will live in when those products become in short supply?

Hell, even Cheney admitted that we've almost certainly passed Peak Oil, and at the rate that China and India are increasing their consumption, the second half will be used up much faster than the first half.

Isn't it a smart idea to do what we have to NOW to avoid the ensuing crisis, rather than waiting until it's too late?

8 votes

#1.22 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:54 PM EST

I don't make my future predictions (visions) based on just what we 'see' today. As the ice melts, new opportunities might exist, new resources. Future space exploration might enable new discoveries or people living on other planets (no, not even remotely thinking about Newt:). I think it will all figure itself out with finite resources possibly used in conjuction with each other to extend their use, or refined differently to be more effecient, or very scarily... more will be tapping into the bottoms of the seas. I think each generation has its own problems, and they each will figure out a way to preserve life, even if it means starting over on another planet because they have discovered genetic adaptability to make it possible. We should live in our 'own' times... and let the future take care of itself.

3 votes

#1.23 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:10 PM EST

austinrick

The regressives, like most of the posters above, should all go colonize Newt's moon base and leave the future of planet Earth to the progressives.

Sheesh..... where do some people get their values?

5 votes

#1.24 - Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:13 AM EST

thisbusymonster

I will re-post this question since some thin-skinned folks don't like it:

What I want to know, greg is how much did the oil industry pay you to concern troll?

It is a valid question. Collapsing it so that it disappears means it is even more valid. It is PLAINLY OBVIOUS to me that you are being paid to shill for the oil industry. Thanks for confirming this for me.

The Earth has run out of oil?

New to the language, NJ Person? I said "once the oil runs out, which it already is (implied running out). You aren't being deliberately obtuse, are you? Because I hate it when people intentionally don't understand something being clearly stated to them. It is insulting.

#1.25 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:18 AM EST

Busy: They pay me a half million dollars a day to debunk green solutions.

they canceled the X-Files waaaaaay to soon.

6 votes

#1.26 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:43 AM EST

Me too, me too, they pay me too! Then I woke up. Ahhhhh hahahahahahaha.

7 votes

#1.27 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:16 PM EST

Yep Runner that would explain why I have no car no cable no computer. My wife and I subsist on $638 a month. We keep the troll money in our offshore accounts. Juuuust waiting for that rainy day ya know.

:-)

5 votes

#1.28 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:36 PM EST

What I want to know, greg is how much did the oil industry pay you to concern troll?

Another Liberal calling the writer of an article "A Troll" for commenting and moderating their own article. ARE YOU KIDDING ME thisbusymonster !!!!

Apparently, the definition of "Troll" escapes you thisbusymonster.

6 votes

#1.29 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:55 PM EST

Libertarian y2k

Hey, where do I sign up for them money checks? I have been putting down the propped up "green" industry for sometime. Can I get back pay?

7 votes

#1.30 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:31 PM EST

Just tell 'em "Your Green and voted for Obama". That will get results. LOL!

4 votes

#1.31 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:42 PM EST

............AND you have to be a troll.

5 votes

#1.32 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:51 PM EST

LOL!

A big prerequisite Runner.

4 votes

#1.33 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:00 PM EST

Hummm Green.... Troll ....

Thinkin I might need to change my name to Shrek .... Maybe they would pay me then too ! Like greg ..... (smiles)

5 votes

#1.34 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:14 PM EST

Not to mention the companies that make E-Fuel have been begging Obama to drop the federal mandate for months because they no longer need or want the federal support. Obama is a crook. I wonder how much of that "green tax money" made it's way into his re-election chest?? The man is single handedly responsible for every heart attack you and I have at our local supermarket.

14 votes

#2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:31 AM EST

austinrick

Not to mention the companies that make E-Fuel have been begging Obama to drop the federal mandate for months

Document, please.

2 votes

#2.1 - Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:17 AM EST

Document it yourself. I am not here to serve you. If you care you will go find out. If you like the sand in your ears you will not.

4 votes

#2.2 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:44 AM EST

hugh bRestored

Petroleum is a finite resource and it pollutes.

When oil was first discovered and processed into useable fuel there were mistakes made. That is the nature of new technology.

Your post strikes me as being similar to a child throwing a tantrum. Not understanding all the elements involved with the issue, not liking the people you rant about, and not getting enough attention you reveal the nature of people like you. The inability to be rational.

Having an open mind means not bringing your biases into the opportunity to learn. Prejudice only distorts information it never improves it.

21 votes

#3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:32 AM EST

Comment collapsed by the community

ryoushi12Deleted

hugh bRestored

uh, the reference to petroleum, pollution

the history of new technology and its problems as it is developed

then, contrary to what you want to think, addressing the irrationality behind not understanding the issues about those new technologies and how people use vapid rhetoric to try and justify a position, is not attacking anyone

i'll try to explain everything to you tesla, but having to do that with everybodies will be very difficult

everybodies catching on? wtf lol,

you see when you were learning to read your teachers were trying to impress upon you the importance of context, vocabulary, and comprehension

not only is it important when learning to read, it also helps when learning other subjects, like history, science, and politcs

12 votes

#3.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:04 AM EST

Comment collapsed by the community

Comment collapsed by the community

Comment collapsed by the community

"Petroleum is a finite resource and it pollutes" Reeeeaaallly? Holy cow I never knew that. Christ one can learn that from Elmo on the "Street."

"When oil was first discovered and processed in to usable fuel mistakes were made. That is the nature of new technology."

What? did they spill some?

The rest of the post is nothing but an attack on the author. Well Hugh thanks for that heads up! Oh boy I got smarter today!!!

8 votes

#3.7 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:43 AM EST

hugh b

tesla, again the comprehesion thing,

i did not attempt to explain green energy to you

you made an accusation about the pertinence of my post, i explained that to you and why your accusation was false

my statement about petroleum and it being finite reflects the need to develop alternate sources for our huge energy demands

it also is important because of the contaminants from burning fossil fuel, but trying to explain that would make somebodies (sic) head explode

did they spill some? no but that isn't the point is it

the rest is not an attack on the author, it reflects an assessment on "people like him" and obviously you also, whose blind anger distorts your ability to understand

if you did get smarter, and that is a big if, then my work is done

10 votes

#3.8 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:55 AM EST

Got my keyboard right here libbies so collapse away.

That is a good thing hugh not sure I could keep up(sarc)! Did somebody ask for your opinion of the authors state of mind hugh? No! you disrespected the author and myself. You can sugar it all ya want. There is a reason it is still up. Your post offered no topical information at all. It was a remidial statement apparently given to alert folks to the level you are able to converse on this subject. And also to give the appearance of being on topic.

8 votes

#3.9 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:58 AM EST

my statement about petroleum and it being finite

So, based on your comment, when does Armageddon hit, when it comes to oil. So far, all we here is speculation. 100years, 500 years, 1000 years, 1 billion years ?

When.

To jam down our throats, a tech that isn't even perfected, is worse, especially on the wallet hugh.

Why is it, Libby's just can't get in their head, the K.I.S.S. Method, works, and the K.I.S.S. method of the moment is Oil and Coal.

9 votes

#3.10 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:03 PM EST

ThinknaboutitDeleted

hugh b

greg, i don't who is jamming what down anybodies (sic) throat

i also do not know when armageddon is arriving

but to that point i don't know when i'll get sick but i have health insurance, i don't know if i'll wreck my car but i have auto insurance the point being is that you prepare and anticipate for things that are possible

if you wait until after the event then it is too late

and while i know things cost a lot of money being ahead of something is much smarter than being unprepared

and tesla, sugar coating is not what i'm doing, i'm observing the coh, the best i can given the circumstances, you push the envelope of tolerance to be sure

7 votes

#3.12 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:24 PM EST

The collapsing is a Liberal, "I don't wanna here the truth", thingy.

As far as "Green" goes, without fossil fuels, green couldn't sustain itself.

Ever seen the Corn for fuel articles. They couldn't grow enough corn in this country to fuel the requirements of a plant that was producing "Corn Fuel" and still have enough of the "Corn Fuel" to ship to distribution stations and make any money.

If ya gotta use fossil fuel, to power a plant creating "Green" fuel, it's a stupid idea.

9 votes

#3.13 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:29 PM EST

Comment collapsed by the community

ThinknaboutitDeleted

Thinknaboutit

which is why we shouldn't be burning the petroleum that we may need for those products in the future

#3.16 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:50 PM EST

Horse@!$%#! It was an accurate evaluation of his comment. The collapsing merely proves that.

Do you own a car Think? and drive it daily? Cause I do not. I actually live the principles liberals pay only lip service to. We have given liberals more than 30 yrs to clean up the environment and today liberals claim the planet is in the worst shape it ever has been in. That is the result of liberal stewardship and the environment. YOU FAILED miserably.

I see you do not care to debate anything. And I do not need the remedial education.

NEXT!!!

10 votes

#3.17 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:52 PM EST

Buono CaneDeleted

Thinknaboutit:

The collapsed comment was a personal attack against hughB

Ummmm, What the heck did you read, cause it wasn't the collapsed comments, that's for sure !

the trick is getting the newer sources developed before the established sources run out.

No, the trick is to use a heck of a lot less of the available fuels to produce a "Green Product" that would be concidered a viable product. Not to use "as much" or "more" to produce the "Green Product". As of now, unless you can show me otherwise Thinknaboutit, it would take more fossil fuel to produce some "Green Fuel".

"STUPID"!

4 votes

#3.19 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:08 PM EST

Repost of childish collapsed comments:

Did ya have something to say on the subject? Or were just gonna psycho-analyze the author? Reported as CoH violation. Above all respect others blah blah blah....

That is funny ryu. Flagged as no value

Now, based on what I just re- posted, should I delete this posters comments ?

Your post strikes me as being similar to a child throwing a tantrum. Not understanding all the elements involved with the issue, not liking the people you rant about, and not getting enough attention you reveal the nature of people like you. The inability to be rational.

Having an open mind means not bringing your biases into the opportunity to learn. Prejudice only distorts information it never improves it.

4 votes

#3.20 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:14 PM EST

ThinknaboutitDeleted

Comment collapsed by the community

Why were Tesla's 3.1 and 3.5 collapsed? What CoH did he/she violate? NONE

Other questions: Why are Hugh's 3, 3.3, 3.8, and 3.12 still open? Why is Ryoushi's 3.2 still open? What CoH did they violate? MANY.

7 votes

#3.23 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:04 PM EST

There seems to be a social collapsing disease going on around the vine the past week or so big time.

8 votes

#3.24 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:50 PM EST

Since I have had no response on the collapsing, and the collapsing of Comments 3.1 and 3.5 have set precedence on what is considered inappropriate, the following comments are being deleted as COH violations.

#3 - Antagonistic to a viner

#3.2 - Off Topic

#3.3 - Antagonistic to a viner

# 3.15 Antagonising by questioning moderation by the author.

Sorry to all those that got caught in the crossfire, but it was all linked as one thread, but I hope my oint was made to those that decided on the petty collapse garbage.

5 votes

#3.25 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:03 PM EST

SW Missouri Mule

NJ Person, the answer is "no value" or off topic, which is a collapsible offence and against the COH.

2 votes

#3.26 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:43 PM EST

austinrick

tesla, please tell us step by step how we can be just like you.

1 vote

#3.27 - Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:22 AM EST

austin: you say you are concerned about the planet and you do not know? How very enlightening.

4 votes

#3.28 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:47 AM EST

Vlad's dog

Good morning greg.

I, like everyone else, do hate to see money lost or wasted. But I do feel we are again at a historic turning point and it is all based on oil reserves and the end of oil as our only energy source.

It is the same as when we went from sail to coal, from whale oil to petroleum.

I watched as all these yahoos bought up good pasture land around me to grow switch grass. Junk grass I call it, we now have fields of crap growing that does nothing to sustain food supplies or bio-diversity. All because some folk see money for studies and experiments with this weed.

It has not changed much during thse turning points, some folks know a good scam and some folks come up with future technologies. It is always a crap roll with new things. Some folks know how to load the dice also.

Now show me how to experriment without losing money and I'll show you a country that still holds on to the past. Saudia Arabia has a nice bank account but........

10 votes

#4 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:34 AM EST

Vlad, Mornin' to ya!

We "Still" have oil and mucho coal. Get as much and produce as much as we can, "While" they're experimenting, and I'll be Okay with that.

So far though, we've lost more than we've gained.

Have you seen Californias manadate lately? Would add 3 to 5 thousand to a vehicles price we have to pay for.

I want a clunker (Smashed) 'cause that's all I can afford right now. :D

Clunkers are becoming extinct just at the time "People" need them.

6 votes

#4.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:37 AM EST

What the Hell is a manadate ?

Gregs so illiterate and speling impaired. What an idiot. :)

5 votes

#4.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:43 AM EST

Vlad's dog

I know we still have a lot of reserves but long range business and governemnt thinking is looking beyond that. The globalization of everything means we have to be in the fore-front all the time now. We have done this with our military, we have stayed on top. Now we must hitch up our pants and get to work on the furture in many other areas.

I know it sucks but we are a country that needs to transition at the front of the pack and not the back on this future issue.

8 votes

#4.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:45 AM EST

Like comment #6 posts below, everything government touches lately, falls apart.

Transition is a good thing, but at the moment, not a good time for overspending and loosing money. When things pick up, sure, go for it. Now, not so much.

I'll bet you can afford a "Volticart" Vlad. :)

4 votes

#4.4 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:49 AM EST

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP9CeHVGE0s

Problem is Vlad apparently the green folks went to school with the oil folks. All we are seeing is profiteering and half assed solutions or in the case CFL's replacing waste with hazardous chemicals, which is no solution. Hell yes we need green renewable energy, but the folks in charge right now are just giving the whole thing a bad name and pissin away all the money we have to spend on it.

6 votes

#4.5 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:51 AM EST

vol fan in chatt, tn

speaking of the volt...here was the prototype:

hadn't got much better...

$41K for this car? Really?

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/small/1008/obama-meets-the-volt-chevy-volt-obama-lemon-political-poster-1281120770.jpg

here it is arriving at the dealership:

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/small/1112/first-chevy-volts-arrive-at-local-dealership-chevyvolt-gm-d-politics-1325382789.jpg

7 votes

#4.6 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:44 AM EST

LOL!

Vol, your a card. LMAO!

5 votes

#4.7 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:50 AM EST

I saw one(Volt) at the McDonalds behind my house being towed. I could barely get off my knees I was laughing so damned hard. What iced the cake were the huge Volt action stickers all over the car.. OMG I am gettin giggly now. It was either that or cry. Electric cars what a joke. Where we gonna get all that lectricity to charge 'em? What we gonna do with all them batteries when they take a @!$%#? How is the power grid gonna handle such an influx of drain? Hell we get brown outs and rolling black outs just from AC use in the summer. Imagine a couple million cars pullin juice too!!! We gonna burn more coal to provide them.......(oooo I can't resist) volts???

11 votes

#4.8 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:53 AM EST

here it is arriving at the dealership:

Gets my vote for best in show.

5 votes

#4.9 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:57 AM EST

vol fan in chatt, tn

Yeah, I am just in one of those weird funny moods today...but I gotta get to work now...catch y'all later.

7 votes

#4.10 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:00 PM EST

BEEEEutiful Vol fan!!!

6 votes

#4.11 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:08 PM EST

Buono Cane

I'm not sure Tesla, but electricity can be generated in a number of ways, wind, solar, hydro, coal, gas, petroleum, even algae and tides.

Batteries can be recycled that is what you do with them when they run out. What happens to the grid when, what is it, the influx of drain. Well there are peak energy demands and off peak demands. It is not constant 24/7.

Improvements in grids, distribution, and demand monitors could possibly provide efficiencies not taken advantage of as yet. But as I've read some of your responses you already know all of this because you clearly can't be told about anything.

Maybe we could also start conserving more. Making homes more energy efficient. I've often wondered why we didn't have more 220v options like they do in Europe.

To take one approach to resolve any issue is, well, stupid. Not calling you stupid, just saying that the driving factors for most of the last 50 years has been consumption driven. That too is just plain stupid. Driving a vehicle that gets less than 25 mpg for commuting to work, to transport one person isn't only stupid but really @!$%#ing stupid. Building homes as big as we have been building them is also stupid.

At the heart of it is greed. It is supported by stupidity.

All the profits made by the corporations that have been taking advantage of the American Citizen need to reinvest in this country, its infrastructure and its future.

7 votes

#4.12 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:03 PM EST

What power grid you gonna put it on Cane? And how you gonna pay for all those improvements? Especially in light of all the money already flushed down the drain as mentioned in the seed? We have already done the Carter program to conserve we have done low flow toilets and showers, energy saving appliances, fuel economy standards, and still nothing. No result that makes a positive impact upon the environment(until of course you back a greenie into a corner and then suddenly they are just full of good environmental news). And nothing I might add to satisfy liberal doom criers. Did you know that some utilities are charging minimums for water use? Not much incentive to save or conserve there since they are gonna charge you anyway. I know what has driven the process, my biggest problem is those who come to articles such as this and rallies and protests in their SUV's and private planes and weep and cry about what the REST OF US need to be doing while they themselves ignore every option. You can shower me with condescension all you want but I live the goals every single day. And that perhaps is why I seem so arrogant to those who do not. My Question is Simple What Are You Doing to Save this Planet? Now I have to walk home. These library coms are time limited.

OH yea EVERY single liberal solution to environmental problems has led us right here. Their solutions create more problems than they have ever solved.......greed indeed.

9 votes

#4.13 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:24 PM EST

Buono Cane

So your way of arguing is to not address anything that is said and to just throw up some gibberish hoping that some of it is valid. Then to deflect and than to accuse. Excellent.

I did not shower you with any condensation. You don't seem arrogant at all. The vine CoH will not allow me to say what I think.

And your accusation that every liberal solution has led somewhere is ridiculous and stupid.
I'm not saying you are stupid just your assertions.

4 votes

#4.14 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:37 PM EST

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/energy-a-environment/175045-study-ignores-true-cost-of-fossil-fuels-to-taxpayers

The true cost of fossil fuels aren't being reflected by the price at the pump. My God, the cost of our national security alone is enough to warrant more investment in alternative sources. We were ahead of the curve until China decided to make it a priority, and now they are in front of us while teapubs want to sit back and let the world move forward while they keep protecting big oil. I just don't get the mindset of people who think we should just keep subsidizing big oil at huge costs (not just money) to the country.

http://www.dylanratigan.com/2011/08/03/whats-the-real-cost-of-gas-in-america/

Republican solutions seem to depend on continued subsidies to the power brokers of dirty energy while they dismiss alternatives with a sneer. I see no future planning at all from them, it is all looking backward.

#4.15 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 11:40 AM EST

Ok Lib50 in 30yrs. of investing and experimentation please point out the feasible applications of alternative energy that have been come up with. Also please show the folks at home how much that investment has cost the American taxpayer and their respective return on that investment. And while you are at it please share with us the alternatives that we will use to replace not just the fuels but all the other products produced from fossil sources. And of course the projected cost for same.

Buono Cane when you say something that one can address I will be the first. So far you have offered nothing but a critique of my comments. Perhaps you hope Ebert is reading? All I have seen is pie in the sky bull@!$%# that costs us @!$%#loads of money with little or NO return other than it makes some folks feel really good about themselves.

6 votes

#4.16 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 1:16 PM EST

tesla

I don't know about any success but we have a pile of failures at tax payer expense and they bitch about Oil Subsidies....

And we find out more it seems almost everyday !

4 votes

#4.17 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 2:46 PM EST

Maybe if we were paying the TRUE COST of our oil dependence it would be different. Why do you not address the subsidies and deductins currently going to big oil? Add in the subsidies that were paid in the past and the indirect subsidies to the industry now - not paying for the costs - spills, wars, pollution, health.... I can go on. You don't seem to have a problem with that. Why?

#4.18 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 4:50 PM EST

Why not ask why we pay $3 a gal of gas and Europe pays $6 or 7 or 8 dollars a gallon...

OIl is cost effective... the savings to Americans in gas prices far outweighs the cost in taxes ...

How about you provide the annual cost in taxes of these subsidies... and I will gladly debate you on their value to American citizens...

Give me a annual Dollar figure, that we can debate...What YOU THINK IT IS... It seems to bother you so much so you must know how much it is... Or you would be arguing about an amount that you don't even know what it is... So this should be a very very easy request for you to answer....

I'll wait..

2 votes

#4.19 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 5:31 PM EST

http://www.progress.org/2003/energy22.htm

Read the link below, it has plenty of information for you. We should be paying closer to $15/gal to be more real. This protection of the oil industry is hurting this country in more ways than one.

http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/

Read them.

#4.20 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:50 PM EST

http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleases/Nov%2098/111698e.htm

lib50

Thank you for the two sources ...and yes I went and read them and then as I always try to do I researched them beyond their face valued. And here is what I found ..

Link #1 ... This is a summary of a 1998 report by this organization the International Center for Technological Assessment ...

I was interested when this report you cited listed costs between $ 558.7 Billion and $1.69 Trillion per year ... Quite a range in cost don't you think? Over a Trillion Dollars between the low side and the high side!!!! Not very accurate wouldn't you say?

Then I looked into the organization itself... What do you know about them ? I found this among other things...

International Center for Technology Assessment
linked to Center for Food Safety
linked to Turning Point Project
all at same address
660 PENNSYLVANIA AVE SE SUITE 302
WASHINGTON, DC 20003

The International Center for Technology Assessment (ICTA) is an anti-capitalist organization fighting against technology in general on the rationale that technology corrupts spiritual and emotional life. ICTA primarily fights against biotechnology, secondarily against global warming, pollution, overpopulation, globalization. ICTA cooperates on anti-technology projects managed by Fenton Communications, Washington, D.C.'s premiere anti-capitalist public relations firm. ICTA is linked by shared directors with the Center for Food Safety, the Turning Point Project, and the International Forum on Globalization. ICTA is virtually the instrument of Douglas Tompkins and his Foundation for Deep Ecology, which is the group's first and biggest funder.

http://www.undueinfluence.com/icta.htm

Douglas Tomkins..... You might want to read up on the man behind the organization before you assume them to be a unbiased source...

So sorry link #1 ... Old data from Bias source with zero sources for their claims! IMO useless!

Link # 2 OK !!!

So from the link an organization called Oil Change International a group set out to remove all Oil subsidies and move that money to Renewable energy funding... Used information from another group ...Shift the Subsidies to lay out their reasons to take away Oil Subsidies and give the funds to renewable energy... Do I have this correct?

We again get the wild swing in "cost " $ 4 Billion to $41 Billion per year... But they do try to explain it as different organization calculate differently ... (smiles, well that helps) ...

But I will focus (because it helps my argument) on this one quote from the report...

“many subsidies have a higher value to recipients than their direct cost to the government.” I

Because that begs the questions ...

What would a Gallon of Gas cost in the United States if all Oil subsidies were removed?

What would it do the supply of oil products to the US markets?

What would the added costs of fuel do the the prices of every item sold in the US due to higher manufacturing , energy and transportation costs...

Find someone to answer those questions that doesn't just want to do away with fossil fuels because of Global Warming... And find me someone that can replace the energy needs of America with reliable cost effient energy ....

And I will be right at the front of the line with you...

But until that day comes ...Sorry Drill Baby Drill!

lib50... As you sit there reading this, please take a moment to think about what Petroleum products mean to you.... Plastic...Glass ... Wha would your life be without them? That computer that you are advocating to remove the subsidies on oil with, either would not exist or would be CRAZY expensive... If you could have even gotten it in the first place to your home... What product doesn't move in this country but by Air, Truck or train...or a combination of all three? All fueled by Petro... !!!!!!

Then think of all the news of late on wasted Hundreds of Millions and Billions of Dollars on the rush to get renewable energy...

Slow down when the energy is ready people will gladly switch...But you can't force something that DOESN'T WORK ! Without dire consequences to the economy!

Thank you but No thank you... And with the problems in the middle east ... and now we turned down Canada for its oil ... We better Drill Baby Drill !!!!

5 votes

#4.21 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:42 PM EST

I profoundly disagree with your take on the future, especially drill, baby, drill. I know we are currently dependent on oil, I drive in LA for godssake. My problem is the current policies of over-subsidizing an industry that already makes record profits, yet the costs to our society are much greater and WE pay (in more than money). You don't like my link and have a problem with the numbers, but the information is just as relevant. Numbers change, the fact that we pay the price in more ways than $/gallon doesn't. Why do you support oil welfare? Why should we subsidize big oil instead of up and coming alternatives? What happened to "getting the government out of business"? Is it privatize the profits but socialize the costs?

#4.22 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 11:15 PM EST

I think we should build baby build........... nuclear power plants underground in the desert. Design would create large lake for extra (or emergency) cooling.

3 votes

#4.23 - Wed Feb 1, 2012 11:41 PM EST

Why do you support oil welfare?

I like $3 dollar Gas and I think I explained that quite extensively ... The cost to Americans in higher fuel costs would cripple our economy...

Why should we subsidize big oil instead of up and coming alternatives?

You say that as if we are not spending BILLIONS on these failing technologies...Do I need to list out the recent companies that we have given hundreds of millions of dollars just so they can go bankrupt?

And how about you do some research and check how well these new technologies worked out in Spain ..,.where for every Green job they gained they lost 2 jobs in their economy... And finally stopped trying..... Please educate yourself beyond your eco friendly sites...

Please stop pretending its a one or the other... we are doing both and one gives us cheap gas so Americans can got to work and get goods transported at reasonable costs...

And one is pouring money into a bottomless renewable energy waste pit. with zero good results!

Our entire economy is dependent on OIL ... so sorry as I said until something else comes along that works and is cost effective... If a baby Polar Bear gets in the way shoo it away and Drill Baby Drill....

mightyj

nuclear power plants underground in the desert. Design would create large lake for extra (or emergency) cooling.

I am with you all the way ...and still Drill Baby Drill !

3 votes

#4.24 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 1:18 AM EST

My uncle lives in Thailand. His car runs on propane which he purchases for 33 cents a liter. Says you get really good gas mileage too. Perhaps there are some alternatives to oil that will stretch out the reserves a while longer.

3 votes

#4.25 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 2:37 AM EST

Again I agree... I am not against alternatives ... Just things that have repeatedly proven to waste Billions of dollars...

4 votes

#4.26 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 2:53 AM EST

The fact is the technology will sell when it is ready to compete with other forms of power production. A 30 percent subsidy on solar panels just pushes the cost of them up 30 percent or so. The market will absorb as many of these products as is economically feasable according to the cost of producing power. I don't think there should be a subsidy on solar panels and I don't think that anyone should need permission to plug them into the grid with approved equipment in an installation that is up to code.

It really isn't anybody's business if I get my Mom a solar panel with a micro-inverter for X-mas and plug it in. Nobody complains when you plug in a toaster.

3 votes

#4.27 - Thu Feb 2, 2012 3:53 AM EST

Thanks for those figures lib50, preciate it.

You assume I do not have a problem with it. I have a problem with it, always have had a problem with it. But I have an even larger problem with neo-environmentalists creating a bigger problem with their "brightest solutions." I have a yet still larger problem with spending endless sums of money on "projects" that may or may not work out or be feasible in large scale application. I have a problem with a guy who has a larger carbon foot print than many small communities telling ME what I should be doing to save the bloody environment. And I have the biggest problem of all with folks who assume because I am not running through the streets shouting "the globe is warming! the globe is warming!" that I am some how NOT concerned for the planet. I however happen to exist within this persistent phenomenon called 'Reality' and it kinda dictates the possible feasible solutions here. Americans have a very unique talent for getting the barn door closed after the livestock has fled. Perhaps it is because we are always trying these "experiments" instead of implementing real do-able thought out solutions?

5 votes

#4.28 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 9:01 AM EST

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/38257/

Promoting distributed generation is the way to make our power in the US both cheaper more abundant and the grid more reliable. The more point of use power generation we are able to do the less strain on our againg electrical infrastructure. All of these giant eco projects overlook the fact because the last thing corporate america wants is for the people to make their own power instead of paying a corporation and as many middlemen as possible.

2 votes

#4.29 - Fri Feb 3, 2012 10:32 PM EST

Manic Drummer

Solar power has its merits, but only in certain areas. What's really needed is more research to figure out how to milk those solar panels for more juice.

4 votes

#5 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:39 AM EST

Chuck1968

not true. the sun shines everywhere and even on cloudy days the suns rays can be collected and stored.

The problem is the storage batteries that is improving, but avoiding it because it's new and conservatives are uncomfortable with anything new any change from their secure little world

Solar is the future of power. I put my money where my mouth is and invested in First solar, Sun tech power and Trina.

Its possible that even for autos will run on solar power in the future.

Though we are far from that today.

#5.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:44 PM EST

Seems their visits leave companies doomed for failure.

Read in the paper this morning that gm still owes about $25 bil and ally (gmac renamed) about $12 bil. But in the meantime taxpayers will keep subsidising them with grants, loans, tax breaks, rebates etc.

5 votes

#6 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:42 AM EST

Don't forget the billions they were excused from paying back. :D

6 votes

#6.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:51 AM EST

Don't forget the billions they were excused from paying back. :D

Ohh, did you have to remind me?

They are getting ready to put the charging stations in around here, to get a full charge it will take overnight, so that will mean if you have an electric car you will need someone to pick you up and drop you off just to charge your car. The electric company is grinning from ear to ear and raising our rates.

4 votes

#6.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:51 AM EST

http://www.streetinsider.com/Insiders+Blog/Westport+%28WPRT%29+Set+to+Explode+Upon+Passage+of+Nat+Gas+Act+-+Cramer/6571846.html

Holy Cow, they did that here too. two stations installed at city hall and they were just on the news telling us that they have seen one car, one person, use those stations 2 times in four months, for a cost to the taxpayors of thousands of dollars for the 2 stations.

People just love that expense to them. /sarc. :/

6 votes

#6.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:09 PM EST

Boudicea

As I see it, the problem ISN'T that we can't "develop" green energy quickly, efficiently and effectively. The problem is that once these companies admit that they've gotten wind & solar energy worked out, the GOVERNMENT MONEY STOPS FLOWING!

Hell, a 10 year old can make solar panels with the step-by-step instructions on the internet! Even if we can't figure out (at this very moment) how to replace ALL fossil fuels with green energy that doesn't mean that we should start utilizing the technology we already HAVE.

8 votes

#7 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:29 AM EST

vol fan in chatt, tn

and the problem is...who is getting the payoffs...it's a rigged game:

Soros:

If Westport reaps the predicted windfall, one of the chief beneficiaries will be George Soros, a major Obama donor and supporter. Soros’s hedge fund holds 3,160,063 company shares (as of its last SEC filing)

Buffet:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-23/buffett-s-burlington-northern-among-winners-in-obama-rejection-of-pipeline.html

7 votes

#7.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:55 AM EST

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-23/buffett-s-burlington-northern-among-winners-in-obama-rejection-of-pipeline.html

Come on Vol ...

No good turn goes unrewarded with this administration ...

Buffett’s Burlington Northern Among Pipeline Winners

Warren Buffett’s Burlington Northern Santa Fe LLC is among U.S. and Canadian railroads that stand to benefit from the Obama administration’s decision to reject TransCanada Corp. (TRP)’s Keystone XL oil pipeline permit.

Surprise Surprise another Friend of Obama's makes money off one of his stupid decisions...

Lets see we can get Oil from Canada through a Pipeline... Which is very safe ... Or we can get our oil from the Middle East that has to come by Tanker which is not so safe ...

Yep great decision !!!! But Buffet will make a butt load of money , so who cares...!

4 votes

#7.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:43 PM EST

Bad Fish

The perfect photo opportunity for pandering politicians. The back drop a beautiful wooded area with the sound of wood peckers and squirrels. The President or Vice-President announces a young Green energy company to receive billions. The camera pans the crowd of Birkenstock and beards, braided underarm hair and hairy legs. Yellow stained fingers clapping, the smell of patchoulii oil and body oder. Hacky Sack or Frisbee golf anyone? Can i borrow that magazine so i can separate seeds and roll one. An unread copy of the sierra club is put to use. The press conference comes to an end as the heavily littered clearing empties. The sound of exhaust and smell of fumes is left to the wind.

10 votes

#8 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:58 AM EST

LOL!

Reminds me of the Gore speech, when all of a sudden, the water went rapid behind him, when he was talking about water being a lost commodity.

8 votes

#8.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:12 PM EST

Bad Fish

We all learned the storage limitations to solar energy in the 3rd grade. If your going to re-invent solar panels without silicone, make sure silicone is not at an all time low. Don't give your friends billions when you know the Chinese solar panel companies will drive them out of business because of more affordable labor. Government invests because the experts know it's not a solvent company with a sustainable product.

4 votes

#8.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:18 PM EST

No one I know of is against newer and better technology and a greener planet by any means. The real problem is the government throwing a Hail Mary pass with our money to companies that they can only hope will catch it and do something with it. What kind of nut job would throw money at a company only "in hope" that it will produce. Who the hell did the research prior to funding.

12 votes

#9 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:35 PM EST

Damn Skippy Runner and that is my problem as well. No one and I mean No One, loves this planet more than I. But by God reality is what reality is. I recycle I ride a bike I own NO vehicle. I even pick up other folk's litter. Yet Ihave to put up with all these arm chair environmentalists that cannot even put their car keys down to run to the f'n mailbox. I live the principles not mouth 'em!

10 votes

#9.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:43 PM EST

Thinknaboutit

Who the hell did the research prior to funding.

The previous administration actually...

2 votes

#9.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:52 PM EST

Yet you do your best to toe the party line against valid (yes I said valid) alternatives tesla

Fossil fuel economy is the single biggest threat to the planet now in existence.

Thats just the facts son.

3 votes

#9.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:53 PM EST

I'll be sure and mention that next time I see Air Force One flying over head.

10 votes

#9.4 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:57 PM EST

@ 9.1 I know you do tesla, your integrity is second to none. My other problem with all this government funding to green energy is giving it with out any accountability. If it was such a profitable and innovative idea, why hasn't anyone in the private sector business industry picked it up and run with it? Perhaps they saw the liability both in fuctionality and cost. If R&D needs to be done, fund it though our Military, these guys are coming home and are already employed by us.

8 votes

#9.5 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:57 PM EST

Something besides throwing it to the fools who are financing your re-election campaign Runner. There is so much that can be done if we could just get the thieves out of the equation.

9 votes

#9.6 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:00 PM EST

The previous administration actually...

And somebody still ran with the 4 to5 year old reports? Are you kidding me?

7 votes

#9.7 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:02 PM EST

Thats just the facts son

Tesla is your son?

7 votes

#9.8 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:04 PM EST

Nope I know who my Dad is. He won't own a computer much less use one. Had to drag ole fella to the cellphone. He cares about the environment too, doesn't want to add to the mercury problem with getting rid of older coms.

7 votes

#9.9 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:28 PM EST

Fossil fuel burning pollutes the air, the water, the soil itself. It causes global warming, ocean acidification, global political unrest and is the MOST EXPENSIVE POSSIBLE FUEL SOURCE on the planet.

Deal with it or die ignorant.

4 votes

#10 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:51 PM EST

You driving your car too?

9 votes

#10.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:56 PM EST

Yes tesla I am. That doesn't change the facts about fossil fuels. They are the number one ecological threat to the planet.

Do you deny it?

I'm stuck in it just like everybody else, so don't even start with your deflective "hypocrisy" crap.

The difference is, I see and agree that since the earth is the basis of all economy, it is insanity to insist on one that undermines its host, and therefore NO cost is too great, and indeed will turn out to be cheaper in the long run to make these investments TOP prority.

The truth is tesla, outside of present economic CONVINIENCE, there are absolutely NO reasons to support fossil fuel economy.

You know it, so admit it.

3 votes

#10.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:05 PM EST

There is no reason not to support it, especially since we are now living longer.

What is the actual drawbacks to fossil fuel, based on our longevity, and why is it the U.S. has reduced pollutants way more than say, "CHINA and other Coal Producers" but this country is the one that needs to keep reducing, at the detriment of OUR population.

Green cost too friggin much.

7 votes

#10.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:19 PM EST

thisbusymonster

What is the actual drawbacks to fossil fuel, based on our longevity

It will run out and our economy will collapse. Right about the time the total heat we've pumped into our atmosphere also wrecks our agricultural base. Then we can all starve to death because no trucks can carry produce the thousands of miles it travels right now, and at the same time our local agriculture will be depending on a soil base that's been blown away, and a climate that no longer behaves as it expects.

Food riots. Widespread misery. Good times!

A thing that cannot be sustained, will end. That thing is the fossil-fuel based economy.

2 votes

#10.4 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:26 PM EST

Well Blue that says it all don't it?

7 votes

#10.5 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:29 PM EST

It will run out and our economy will collapse

When ?

6 votes

#10.6 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:48 PM EST

What says what all Tesla?

Greg, if you think coal and oil are making you live longer, think again because you're not thinking very well.

3 votes

#10.7 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:50 PM EST

George From Illinois

Well Blue Wolf, I may agree that coal does nothing to help us live longer, but oil sure as hell does. Think plastics. 90% of all disposal medical devices that are currently in use are made of plastic. And where does the vast majority of plastics originate from? OIL. That computer your sitting in front of right now is primarily PLASTIC. That car you are driving has more PLASTIC than it ever had in the past allowing for better gas mileage due to lighter weight.

6 votes

#10.8 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:26 PM EST

Greg, if you think coal and oil are making you live longer, think again because you're not thinking very well.

Geeez, I didn't say Oil and Coal made us live longer, I was speaking about the Pollution comments and the fact that, even with this so-called mega pollution we spew, we are still living longer.

Get it now blue wolf.

Explaining a comment can be soooo tiring. :/

7 votes

#10.9 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:42 PM EST

Ya george and all plastic accounts for 8% of oil consumption. 4% for material and 4% for the energy to make the plastic.

Plastics pose their own environmental problems also, so thats a catch 22, but we'd do fine if we reduced our consumption of fossil fuels to 8% of what we use now.

Next.

#10.10 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:58 PM EST

Rich-2229277

Damn greg,

Why did you have to bring up Gore my friend? My day was going along so well and now by bringing his name about I fully realize that this Green Money Pit is like Global Warming....

Its slowing happening and will yield little anytime soon but is more like Science Fiction than Science Fact and will take much more than we can currently afford!

5 votes

#11 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:52 PM EST

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/27/parent-obama-backed-battery-maker-goes-bankrupt/

Sorry!

I now we all love "Carbon Credits". LMAO!

4 votes

#11.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:21 PM EST

molemanisalive

Hi Greg,

You forgot to add Ener1 to the list:

I, for one, am for cleaner energies. What we need are private companies investing in these green technologies without public assistance. That will get the job done for sure! We know the private sector doesn't like failure, they can make it work. Government involvement will only hinder the progress of the green technologies.

3 votes

#12 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:26 PM EST

Well, let me tell you something folks, This "Green Tech" is not what this country "WANTS".

I want it. My town has begun using solar for street lights, community fields, the tennis park, etc. Solar is not just for sunny days. Green is the future.

4 votes

#13 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:33 PM EST

Ya gotta look at whats happening Joanna. A little "Green" is good right now, but this administration is going for the Gusto, when "Green" isn't ready for that kinda Total commitment and neither is this countries finances.

6 votes

#13.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:50 PM EST

A little "Green" is good right now,

Greg, you don't strike me as a guy who would be satisfied with anything little. C'mon, look ahead, that's where the future is.

1 vote

#13.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:03 PM EST

Sure, The Future, but not right now. My conservative comes out big on wasted money. Now if those "Green" companies didn't go bankrupt just after they got the millions, I wouldn't have written this article and wouldn't have found it another waste of government/taxpayor money if they were actually producing instead of stealing. Where is the President on these failures. And they wonder why people don't trust government when they invest. :)

6 votes

#13.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:58 PM EST

From a small business perspective, I know first-hand about "upgrading" to "green." My grandfather and father owned a dry-cleaning business for over 50 years. Customers' clothes were CLEAN ... no spots ever remained. He was always an advocate of pre-spotting. Were they "green?" -- NO. Green hadn't been invented yet.

In comes "green." My dad was forced to upgrade his equipment, chemicals, ventilation, etc ... with his own money .... no government help. So much for helping the "little guy." Were the clothes as clean or cleaner? NO - even with pre-spotting. Very often, he had to run the clothes through 3+ times before the spots came out. Now, where's the "savings" in that? He used more electricity, natural gas, chemicals, time ... and the results were no better and very often worse.

We're spending millions ... billions ... on "green" - In NJ, we have cars, trucks, and buses spewing carcinogens into our air supply. Nobody mentions much about that. Not one month goes by when I don't read about another park, school property, town ball fields, or sections of a town found laden with toxic soil. How does that green thing work again??

The only thing "green" I believe in is Oscar the Grouch.

8 votes

#14 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:35 PM EST

Ewwwww....dry cleaning chemicals are some of the worst stuff around.

Nice that you equate planet health to spots on clothes in order of importance.

3 votes

#14.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:03 PM EST

blue wolf -- Truth be told, I love the smell of carbontetrachloride. Grew up on it! That's not to say it's "good" for us, mind you. However, if you know anything about dry-cleaning, you'd know that carbon tet is the best chemical for most stain removals.

FYI -- Carbon tet has a SWEET smell, so I don't understand your "Ewwwww." Maybe you don't like the smell of ripe peaches either.

Drycleaning chemicals are some of the worst stuff around? Really? Are you a drycleaning professional who knows this as fact? There are many chemicals that are worse. Ask the Ramapough Indians and others who live in northern NJ about toxic chemical waste. The old Ford plant in Mahwah dumped TONS of their toxic chemicals and paint sludge into the Ramapo River and surrounding area for decades - it's one of our many ongoing Superfund sites to this day. The people have an enormous documentation of what the government and Ford called "mysterious illnesses" with no merit - simple things like assorted cancers, emphysema, skin diseases, etc.

I did NOT equate planet health to spots on clothes. I gave an example but you chose to pick at only ONE aspect of it. How myopic and typical when someone has nothing better to contribute.

8 votes

#14.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:28 PM EST

andre gasparre

It's "Everybody's" as in every body is...not everybodies. So, trying to help the planet is a bad thing? What happens when all the resources are gone? What then? Future generations will be left wondering why we had to use precious resources to blow leaves from one yard to another or trim the grass. We can simply explain that we had to "drill baby, drill!!

1 vote

#15 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:54 PM EST

#3 - Antagonistic to a viner

#3.2 - Off Topic

#3.3 - Antagonistic to a viner

# 3.15 Antagonising by questioning moderation by the author.

Sorry to all those that got caught in the crossfire, but it was all linked as one thread, but I hope my point was made to those that decided on the petty collapse garbage.

7 votes

#16 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:06 PM EST

LOL

6 votes

#16.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:26 PM EST

Bad Fish

I will need a referral for professional counseling to deal with my post traumatic posting stress syndrome from your volatile choice of subject matter. Hopefully Newsvine steps in to pay for these services. I may need medication too for my explosion of anxiety as a result of the negative threads.

I had almost blocked out my experience working at the animal testing center. I was a young teen at the time dutied with mopping the hall ways when it happened. Animal rights Ninjas dropped through the sky lights and began freeing the Gerbils and Bunnys. I didn't really pay to much attention to the exodus of animals as i mopped the floors. It is very possible that i was too stoned to realize they had set the facility on fire after the animals had safely left.

My therapist at the time assuared me these Animal rights advocates were freedom fighters for justice and not criminals. The Fire was applauded by the media. The only human victim ,convinced he was a casualty of justice. It's all coming back to me now.

6 votes

#16.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:29 PM EST

One day Dog_Blue, One day the petty collapsing will stop. :)

7 votes

#16.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:31 PM EST

You think??

Nah!!

6 votes

#16.4 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:48 PM EST

Germany is rethinking solar energy. Their conclusion is that costs are too high relative to the yield. Their solution is to reduce or eliminate government expenditure for solar and focus on more likely to succeed technolgy. Finally a cost -benifits reality!!

8 votes

#17 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:26 PM EST

Germany is rethinking solar energy.

Not in the negative way you present. The world is constantly changing - you might want to check the accuracy of that statement. Merkel has done a complete reversal and will go solar, wind, natural gas; since Fukushima, nuclear is set to shut down completely.

4 votes

#17.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:01 PM EST

I just read it why don't you check it and open your MIND!! Is it negative because it doesn't support mindless liberal dribble? or because its something you wish for despite reality? I think it’s positive not negative.

6 votes

#17.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:09 PM EST

I responded in a civil tone to you Dog_Blue, so I don't know what your problem is! Here's just one example:

Dec 29, 2011

All Eyes On German Renewable Energy Efforts
Chancellor Angela Merkel's government passed legislation in June setting the country on course to generate a third of its power through renewable sources – such as wind, solar, geothermal and bioenergy – within a decade, reaching 80 percent by 2050, while creating jobs, increasing energy security and reducing harmful emissions.

Mindless liberal dribble, your ass!

#17.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:24 PM EST

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,809439,00.html

If Germany is realizing it is problematic it too much to ask the damn liberals to be responsible. I see you don't like to be challanged and feel "persecuted" WAH WAH someone disagreed with my liberal mindset. Must be a racist. GROW UP!!!

5 votes

#17.4 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:31 PM EST

LOL that hyperlink you posted does nothing to support your B.S. READING Comprehension, the ability to read and understand? That link claims RENEWABLE ENERGY, Including wind, solar, geothermal etc. If you read my post with an OPEN MIND you would have seen that they decided to de-emphasize solar and concentrate on other sources!!

But no you had to attack me instead claiming the report is negative. Again I ask negative in what perspective? Your biases?

4 votes

#17.5 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:47 PM EST

From your link:

"According to the experts, the advantage over the current system is obvious: Money would no longer be invested in places where the highest subsidies are paid, but where the most green electricity can be generated."

But no you had to attack me

Sorry, Sue, if you felt it was an attack.

#17.6 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:34 PM EST

Greg... I agree that "Green Tech" has caused current prices to rise (and will even moreso as a result of C&T). I recall predicting in '08 that if the trend continues, power bills will be the same size as a typical house payment... and then of course, because we are made to look like bumbling fools as a result of their outrageous legislation to make themselves even wealthier, the government will have to take it all away from us, and make energy a government-owned resource, doing away with all privately-owned cos.

Solyndra, Evergreen Solar Inc, SpectraWatt, Mountain Plaza Inc., Olsen's Crop Service, Olsen's Mills Acquisition Co, ALL WHO RECEIVED millions in GOVERNMENT BAILOUTS to supposedly help jump start "Green Energy", ARE ALL BROKE ! Lost jobs and loss of millions and Billions of dollars of tax payer money to promote a failure. Holy Crap! Can we say "STUPID INVESTMENT" ?

About those bailouts.... a bit of a reminder on the vast campaign contributions Green-Tech made to the Obama campaign. :)

7 votes

#18 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:52 PM EST

a bit of a reminder on the vast campaign contributions Green-Tech made to the Obama campaign. :)

"WE" never forget, but others "CHOOSE" to forget/Ignore. :)

5 votes

#18.1 - Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:59 PM EST

redrockraven

It amazes me that people object to the Federal Government promoting green energy. If it were not for Federally subsidized research and development (R & D), this country would not be the most technologically advanced developed nation in the world. According to resource scientists, world oil production peaked in 2005 and is currently flat and headed for a future decline of approximately 5 percent a year. The available and retrievable coal reserves, with escalating coal usage of approximately 7 percent per year, can last perhaps another 30 years. Where does the author think this nation is going to get its energy from if green energy development such as solar is not the answer? I sure wouldn't want nuclear energy to be our only long term source of energy as we have not yet figured out a safe way to deal with the nuclear waste.

2 votes

#19 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:42 PM EST

J-3936500

I wonder how many oil companies went out of business during the early days of the industry? My guess is a lot. I'm not impressed with this article at all.

#20 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:48 PM EST

FreedomRanger

If it were not for Federally subsidized research and development (R & D), this country would not be the most technologically advanced developed nation in the world.

Most, if not ALL tech success stories come from the 'Steve Job's' of America, i.e., the private sector, NOT the feds. The Federal government does not do well in R&D, much less productive implementation of anything, outside of an excellent Militairy. I give you Solyndra and US Post Office. Corrupt, dare I say criminal bloated political bureaucratic boondogals, and inevitably the only people who benefit are within Unions. Well, hello?

I submit that if you contrast NJ and the serious cutting of the Union bloat, which took it from a massive deficit to a surplus in less than 3 years, (Thank you Gov. Christy), vs the continued corruption and Union pension benefits on the backs of the American tax payer in IL, you will see what most 3rd graders would consider a WTF moment. Please, this is not rocket science.

6 votes

#21 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:51 PM EST

I agree. Many of the oil cos have their own outstanding R&D sectors (e.g. Exxon-Mobil), and others, such as Connoco-Philips, are partners with outside businesses and universities, putting millions into research (e.g. algae).

5 votes

#21.1 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:56 PM EST

uhhh, lots of items started with Government: A few.... NASA: The need to find imperfections in aerospace structures and components, such as castings, rocket motors and nozzles led to the development of a medical CAT scanner which searches the human body for tumors or other abnormalities.

The Internet started with the ARPANET The Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET), was the world's first operational packet switching network and the core network of a set that came to compose the global Internet. The network was funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) of the United States Department of Defense for use by its projects at universities and research laboratories in the US. The packet switching of the ARPANET was based on designs by Lawrence Roberts of the Lincoln Laboratory.^[1]

1 vote

#21.2 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:57 PM EST

FreedomRanger

Keep government out of what should become commercial and competitive ventures.

It's very nature is anti profit, and that just doesn't work in industry.

6 votes

#21.3 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:58 PM EST

Keep government out of what should become commercial and competitive ventures.

Yep!! ..And - Thank you, again.

6 votes

#21.4 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:09 PM EST

well if they'd done that we probably would still be talking on landline phones instead of the Internet. :)

#21.5 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:30 PM EST

redrockraven

Actually, most of the recent advances in technology began with R & D as subsidized by the Federal Government. The best examples are the advances in electronic technology that have their beginnings in the space exploration program (NASA) or the military. A recent example is the advance in severe medical trauma treatment resulting from our military experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan. Most research advances in cancer and AIDS treatment is the result of Federally subsidized R & D.

1 vote

#21.6 - Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:41 AM EST

FreedomRanger

well if they'd done that we probably would still be talking on landline phones instead of the Internet

Again.....Steve Jobs

4 votes

#22 - Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:45 PM EST